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- Apr 18, 2019
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Responding to this as it corresponds with events directly.
You're right, I could add more direct rewards to the events. I'll look into that in the future, I haven't exactly been dropping stuff in-terms of loot and so on due to fears of over bloating the current loot economy. This will be a change I make in the future, going forward.
But, I'd like to point something out - you did go through outstanding efforts to prepare for your event and it would have gone well, but other things occurred; Henry drove over an IED and Texas ran off and starting looting a warehouse, only to trigger more bombs which would have realistically alerted the Millers of your presence. I cannot control whether or not players fall into traps, without stepping in, and artificially removing them to ensure things go smoothly which may be absolutely fine in some cases.
I want you, as players to succeed, but if you take steps and things happen during events that realistically would cause you a failure, or so on and I do start this. It's going to become a running thing. I don't mind doing it sometimes and have made efforts to give you easy wins by dropping HP or adjusting things on the fly, but there have to be some things else it minimalizes these incidents. Characters can learn, now Henry and others can look at crates placed during events with the Miller's with an eye of caution, and avoid them. They can look for more traps, and make efforts to disarm them and navigate past them.
There are methods and character stuff to come out of this. These characters can look at these tactics utilized by the Millers and look to counter them during the next event ... now, for events. I do want to offer something from my end as a loremaster, and I will be offering spoilers for past events and potential outcomes. Also, how much I write going into them!
EP5 - "Eight Hours"
Plot:
A wounded scout returns to Monroe with a message from Carl Miller and his gang. He brings Monrovians up to speed on how his caravan was hit by them on the road to Vermont, and how the rest of his group is currently being held against their will and informs them that Carl wants to meet with one of the members of leadership in Monroe to talk “business”.
Paths:
Flexible, but two straight-forward paths. Monroe goes to the meet without the intention of breaking into a firefight, and Carl Miller and whomever from the leadership speak. He will express his “plans”; which boil down to something disturbingly similar to that of The Disciples of Lazarus and give Monroe eight hours to pack up and leave the state. All of the hostages will be returned after.
Another option, Monroe decides against speaking and launches a head-on attack, endangering the lives of the hostages. Monroe will have a big fight but leave with a win with Carl's men being dispatched and the hostages rescued.
DM Comment:
Okay, I have now shown you about the amount I wrote for this event; straight-forward. I mentioned prior to the beginning of this event that it could take "fifteen minutes" or "hours". This is what I meant by that, Monroe had the option of engaging on a non-violent path ... was it the correct one? Not at all! No path is correct and none necessarily is wrong. Each has benefits, and each has cons, like any path in reality does. One would give you lore information, and your hostages back, and the other would establish Monroe as the top-dog and dispatch of numerous Miller's, making the final attack on the compound easier and potentially getting your hostages back safely, which you did!
EP6 - "The Key"
Plot:
A scouting report details sightings of Miller activity around an old factory a few miles outside of town. Apparently, a small group of them have set up near--or--at the site and are in the process of moving equipment in large wagons. Some of the details are hairy, but the scouts are adamant it would be a prime time to ambush them and take whatever the equipment is for Monroe. If Monroe comes to a decision to ambush them; they will encounter a strong bit of resistance from some of Jeremiah and Carl Miller’s men. After killing and possibly capturing all of them, a bit of searching around will reveal a notebook belonging to one of the senior members of The Millers with information regarding what Carl Miller’s plans actually are;
These plans will detail his decreasing sanity, and how The Miller Family has gradually stepped away from simply focusing on robbing people for profit to some cult-like obsession with finding an unknown location called Eden. Apparently, this location is hidden in an underground bunker in New York. This unnamed Miller will theorize a few different things, ranging from it being an old-world government ship still hanging off the coast with scientists on board, to an underground bunker thought to have something stored in it that would offer Carl immortality. Another mysterious figure will be mentioned as well; “The Man in Red”, a prophet that has supposedly reached out and spoken to Carl in his dreams with the promises of grandeur. He ends with his thought that Carl has finally lost his mind and that the world has gotten and broken him.
Paths:
Flexible and open! We started players a few minutes away from the warehouse and allowed them to go about this ambush however they wanted. It could've been coming through the trees, or navigating through traps inside the warehouse to get the drop on Jeremiah and his men. Anything you can think of would've been fine. But, of course, the path to the place was trapped by Miller's attempting to cover their operation from potential eyes, attacks, and oncoming shamblers. They know Monroe and their group are at war.
DM Comments:
Again, straight-forward. It's a matter of your approach, I was not anticipating an onward--loud assault, and I think it would look awfully scummy for me to come in and pick up an IED that could've been easily spotted by a forward scouting party. Did any of them see it? No. This is what I mean, I cannot control these actions, and if your player scouts, who you sent ahead are not able to see this, me pointing it out and always directing them on the path is exactly what some are you asking me to not do. It can be perceived as favoritism, and me whispering in a "friends" ear, or a character I prefer to roleplay with and giving them forewarning of how to avoid something that might've caught them off-guard otherwise. It's a slippery slope, but something that comes with DMing.
On your attack itself, I don't know what happened. I was directly around the members of C-P-F at the time of their engagement with the Miller's. I am not certain what became of Monroe after Henry drove over the IED. I can only recall one member coming back and that was Anderson Parker, who I have heard no complaints from in terms of his injuries. The C-P-F engaged at long distance, and picked off several members, but most decided against moving in. Which is fine! Anderson was near-on captured because he moved forward into the warehouse alone and the player accepted that, as did the person running the event. It would've done nothing but add even more roleplay for Monroe going forward. Though, one member of the C-P-F, Paw, decided to push forward to rescue Anderson, as it is in his character to not leave an innocent to such a fate. Maxine Rutherford and Paw are best friends, and have been for years! This led to some conflict between two player characters; Corey and Max.
During this event, I was sitting in the voice chat with them and several others. Corey Jackson's player, who I will not name, made several comments to Maxine's player over voice instructing them of what to do, making odd comments and veiled threats regarding her character breaking up with her's if Max did not do what Corey wanted. I stepped in and politely asked for this to stop, and mentioned to Maxine's player to do what her character would do. She initially left, and then returned.
This is when Zed and his NPCs stepped into the event and ended up moving in and claiming a sizeable victory for Monroe in completely slaughtering all of Jeremiah Miller's men, and capturing two survivors (one a lieutenant, with lore information and the other a random mook). Nobody went down from here, and nobody but Monroe won. Jeremiah did successfully getaway, but this is because Jeremiah Miller is not an "Admin NPC" but a character, and person in the spiraling story of What We Become. He is not going to participate in a suicide rush against Monroe and is going to retreat unless his back is against the wall. He went out a side entrance, managed to find another horse, and escaped with Maxine Rutherford in hot pursuit. As I am certain this player will corroborate, Maxine was able to catch up with him and caused his method of escape to crash, therefore, wounding him. This led to a fight between the two, where Maxine (who was already injured and suffering from Low HP) lost and received a cool bit of roleplay with him, and now has a new IC nemesis to give her more reason to want to bring the Miller's to justice along with Monroe.
There have been no concerted efforts to attack you all or be sure that you fail. This is your story, but it will not bend to your characters will in every event for outcomes you may prefer just as you stepping outside in the real world will not, either. We may make exceptions to avoid complete party-wipes, and we may even look at these incidents with different viewpoints and decide to go easier after a failure to ensure certain wins, will it be a regular occurrence? No, because that is not what What We Become is nor is Project Zomboid. When you open your game, you're presented with one message - one that applies to this lore, and every other.
"This is how you died."
You will have successes, and you will have failures. It's up to you to roll with the punches and treat what you might feel OOC as a bad run of luck as something in-character. It's a matter of you not looking at it like us, the admins, targeting you, and instead, realizing how harsh the world is in-character and how you can change your preferred method or route to better suit your numbers, armaments, and tactics. If Monroe, CPF, The Crows, or Brighton ever attend an event and decide the better method is to retreat and regroup to prevent further injury, or simply not go. It's fine! There are other things written in our events to account for this, you're not forced to go to these event locations, and you're not forced to take specific routes.
We will start to add better quest rewards to our events; I recognize the amount given in the last was not substantial, and that the scavenging of weaponry would've been preferred. I will also be looking at the events run by other admins more closely and crashing down on the number of them popping off so quick non-stop. I do offer my apologies in that regard; some things have gone through without actually being approved, and that is an unfortunate failing on my part. And, I can assure you, it will not continue.
Thank you for the feedback, and I hope this clears up some things on the notion of events, how they're written, how they function and give you a better understanding of our intentions going into them.
You're right, I could add more direct rewards to the events. I'll look into that in the future, I haven't exactly been dropping stuff in-terms of loot and so on due to fears of over bloating the current loot economy. This will be a change I make in the future, going forward.
But, I'd like to point something out - you did go through outstanding efforts to prepare for your event and it would have gone well, but other things occurred; Henry drove over an IED and Texas ran off and starting looting a warehouse, only to trigger more bombs which would have realistically alerted the Millers of your presence. I cannot control whether or not players fall into traps, without stepping in, and artificially removing them to ensure things go smoothly which may be absolutely fine in some cases.
I want you, as players to succeed, but if you take steps and things happen during events that realistically would cause you a failure, or so on and I do start this. It's going to become a running thing. I don't mind doing it sometimes and have made efforts to give you easy wins by dropping HP or adjusting things on the fly, but there have to be some things else it minimalizes these incidents. Characters can learn, now Henry and others can look at crates placed during events with the Miller's with an eye of caution, and avoid them. They can look for more traps, and make efforts to disarm them and navigate past them.
There are methods and character stuff to come out of this. These characters can look at these tactics utilized by the Millers and look to counter them during the next event ... now, for events. I do want to offer something from my end as a loremaster, and I will be offering spoilers for past events and potential outcomes. Also, how much I write going into them!
EP5 - "Eight Hours"
Plot:
A wounded scout returns to Monroe with a message from Carl Miller and his gang. He brings Monrovians up to speed on how his caravan was hit by them on the road to Vermont, and how the rest of his group is currently being held against their will and informs them that Carl wants to meet with one of the members of leadership in Monroe to talk “business”.
Paths:
Flexible, but two straight-forward paths. Monroe goes to the meet without the intention of breaking into a firefight, and Carl Miller and whomever from the leadership speak. He will express his “plans”; which boil down to something disturbingly similar to that of The Disciples of Lazarus and give Monroe eight hours to pack up and leave the state. All of the hostages will be returned after.
Another option, Monroe decides against speaking and launches a head-on attack, endangering the lives of the hostages. Monroe will have a big fight but leave with a win with Carl's men being dispatched and the hostages rescued.
DM Comment:
Okay, I have now shown you about the amount I wrote for this event; straight-forward. I mentioned prior to the beginning of this event that it could take "fifteen minutes" or "hours". This is what I meant by that, Monroe had the option of engaging on a non-violent path ... was it the correct one? Not at all! No path is correct and none necessarily is wrong. Each has benefits, and each has cons, like any path in reality does. One would give you lore information, and your hostages back, and the other would establish Monroe as the top-dog and dispatch of numerous Miller's, making the final attack on the compound easier and potentially getting your hostages back safely, which you did!
EP6 - "The Key"
Plot:
A scouting report details sightings of Miller activity around an old factory a few miles outside of town. Apparently, a small group of them have set up near--or--at the site and are in the process of moving equipment in large wagons. Some of the details are hairy, but the scouts are adamant it would be a prime time to ambush them and take whatever the equipment is for Monroe. If Monroe comes to a decision to ambush them; they will encounter a strong bit of resistance from some of Jeremiah and Carl Miller’s men. After killing and possibly capturing all of them, a bit of searching around will reveal a notebook belonging to one of the senior members of The Millers with information regarding what Carl Miller’s plans actually are;
These plans will detail his decreasing sanity, and how The Miller Family has gradually stepped away from simply focusing on robbing people for profit to some cult-like obsession with finding an unknown location called Eden. Apparently, this location is hidden in an underground bunker in New York. This unnamed Miller will theorize a few different things, ranging from it being an old-world government ship still hanging off the coast with scientists on board, to an underground bunker thought to have something stored in it that would offer Carl immortality. Another mysterious figure will be mentioned as well; “The Man in Red”, a prophet that has supposedly reached out and spoken to Carl in his dreams with the promises of grandeur. He ends with his thought that Carl has finally lost his mind and that the world has gotten and broken him.
Paths:
Flexible and open! We started players a few minutes away from the warehouse and allowed them to go about this ambush however they wanted. It could've been coming through the trees, or navigating through traps inside the warehouse to get the drop on Jeremiah and his men. Anything you can think of would've been fine. But, of course, the path to the place was trapped by Miller's attempting to cover their operation from potential eyes, attacks, and oncoming shamblers. They know Monroe and their group are at war.
DM Comments:
Again, straight-forward. It's a matter of your approach, I was not anticipating an onward--loud assault, and I think it would look awfully scummy for me to come in and pick up an IED that could've been easily spotted by a forward scouting party. Did any of them see it? No. This is what I mean, I cannot control these actions, and if your player scouts, who you sent ahead are not able to see this, me pointing it out and always directing them on the path is exactly what some are you asking me to not do. It can be perceived as favoritism, and me whispering in a "friends" ear, or a character I prefer to roleplay with and giving them forewarning of how to avoid something that might've caught them off-guard otherwise. It's a slippery slope, but something that comes with DMing.
On your attack itself, I don't know what happened. I was directly around the members of C-P-F at the time of their engagement with the Miller's. I am not certain what became of Monroe after Henry drove over the IED. I can only recall one member coming back and that was Anderson Parker, who I have heard no complaints from in terms of his injuries. The C-P-F engaged at long distance, and picked off several members, but most decided against moving in. Which is fine! Anderson was near-on captured because he moved forward into the warehouse alone and the player accepted that, as did the person running the event. It would've done nothing but add even more roleplay for Monroe going forward. Though, one member of the C-P-F, Paw, decided to push forward to rescue Anderson, as it is in his character to not leave an innocent to such a fate. Maxine Rutherford and Paw are best friends, and have been for years! This led to some conflict between two player characters; Corey and Max.
During this event, I was sitting in the voice chat with them and several others. Corey Jackson's player, who I will not name, made several comments to Maxine's player over voice instructing them of what to do, making odd comments and veiled threats regarding her character breaking up with her's if Max did not do what Corey wanted. I stepped in and politely asked for this to stop, and mentioned to Maxine's player to do what her character would do. She initially left, and then returned.
This is when Zed and his NPCs stepped into the event and ended up moving in and claiming a sizeable victory for Monroe in completely slaughtering all of Jeremiah Miller's men, and capturing two survivors (one a lieutenant, with lore information and the other a random mook). Nobody went down from here, and nobody but Monroe won. Jeremiah did successfully getaway, but this is because Jeremiah Miller is not an "Admin NPC" but a character, and person in the spiraling story of What We Become. He is not going to participate in a suicide rush against Monroe and is going to retreat unless his back is against the wall. He went out a side entrance, managed to find another horse, and escaped with Maxine Rutherford in hot pursuit. As I am certain this player will corroborate, Maxine was able to catch up with him and caused his method of escape to crash, therefore, wounding him. This led to a fight between the two, where Maxine (who was already injured and suffering from Low HP) lost and received a cool bit of roleplay with him, and now has a new IC nemesis to give her more reason to want to bring the Miller's to justice along with Monroe.
There have been no concerted efforts to attack you all or be sure that you fail. This is your story, but it will not bend to your characters will in every event for outcomes you may prefer just as you stepping outside in the real world will not, either. We may make exceptions to avoid complete party-wipes, and we may even look at these incidents with different viewpoints and decide to go easier after a failure to ensure certain wins, will it be a regular occurrence? No, because that is not what What We Become is nor is Project Zomboid. When you open your game, you're presented with one message - one that applies to this lore, and every other.
"This is how you died."
You will have successes, and you will have failures. It's up to you to roll with the punches and treat what you might feel OOC as a bad run of luck as something in-character. It's a matter of you not looking at it like us, the admins, targeting you, and instead, realizing how harsh the world is in-character and how you can change your preferred method or route to better suit your numbers, armaments, and tactics. If Monroe, CPF, The Crows, or Brighton ever attend an event and decide the better method is to retreat and regroup to prevent further injury, or simply not go. It's fine! There are other things written in our events to account for this, you're not forced to go to these event locations, and you're not forced to take specific routes.
We will start to add better quest rewards to our events; I recognize the amount given in the last was not substantial, and that the scavenging of weaponry would've been preferred. I will also be looking at the events run by other admins more closely and crashing down on the number of them popping off so quick non-stop. I do offer my apologies in that regard; some things have gone through without actually being approved, and that is an unfortunate failing on my part. And, I can assure you, it will not continue.
Thank you for the feedback, and I hope this clears up some things on the notion of events, how they're written, how they function and give you a better understanding of our intentions going into them.